Ashley Hutchings and Ken Nicol
By Daniel Coston
Look at any folk record from the past forty years and the names Ashley Hutchings and Ken Nicol will pop up in some prominent places. Hutchings was the founding bassist in Fairport Convention, leaving after fabled 1969 album Liege & Lief to form another legendary folk/rock act, Steeleye Span. He is still very active today with the Albion Band, his series of Morris music albums, and the Rainbow Chasers.
Ken Nicol has been Hutchings’ longtime partner in the Albion Band and has been the guitarist in Steeleye Span since 2002. Now the two have released their first album as a duo, entitled Copper, Russet and Gold. The album, available through Park Records (www.parkrecords.com), is a fun and eclectic collection of songs that are not bound by any one genre.
[Editor's Note: This interview originally was conducted in 2010 and appeared on the previous incarnation of tangentsmag.com.]
Coston: How did this record come about?
Nicol: I would say it started years ago, in fact it was at least eight years, maybe even ten, when I began to think that Ashley and I should make a duo album.
The songs we’d been writing, first for Ashley’s dance band, and then for the Albions appeared to work in a way that caused me to think that there was something a little bit different and special in how these songs were coming together, and in how effective they were turning out. Though we’d talk about this from time to time, it wasn’t until more recently that the suggestion of a project like this began to take on a little more gravity. I mean, there are all the finances and logistics to consider.
The thing that sealed it in the end was when I spoke about it to John Dagnell at Park Records, Steeleye Span’s record label. He was keen to get involved. So the project got under way, then it really was more a case of working around all the other individual commitments we had. From beginning to end, it took something like two years before Copper, Russet and Gold was completed.
Hutchings: The record came about through Ken contacting me and suggesting we write and record an album of newly written songs. He said (quite correctly) that we write good songs together, and had composed many fine ones for The Albion Band, and wasn’t it time we composed together again?
Coston: What surprised me is the diversity of the music on the CD. Some rock, folk, and jazz mixed in. Was that something that evolved during the writing process?
Hutchings: The diversity of the musical styles on the cd came about very naturally. The different styles simply matched the lyrics, in our opinion.
Nicol: Both Ashley and I are very eclectic in the way we view music. Largely it’s a case of the way you think is consequently the way you write. If there was a process that could be described as evolvement, it would be less of one that just sort of happened by itself, and more a case of wanting to give the album a breadth of expression and colour that could be achieved effectively by using a whole mixture of musical genres.
A good example would be the track “Never The Same Again.” Ashley had written this set of lyrics about the American GIs here in Britain at the end of World War Two, and the effect that both the soldiers and the war had on the young female population here. A logical thing to do was to set a story of that time to the music of that time, the intent being to write in a style that, hopefully, would capture a little bit of that swing and jazz era.
Another aspect of all this would be periodically when we’d take stock of the work we’d done up to a given point of recording. One or the other would comment that maybe there needed to be a ballad, or an up-tempo piece, for example, to keep it interesting and varied from start to finish.
Coston: Do you find that the writing process is different in working with each other, as opposed to writing on your own, or with others?
Nicol: It’s quite different. If I write alone, often melodies and chord progressions initiate the subject matter of a song. Ninety-something percent of the time, when writing with Ashley, he’ll send me his lyrics, and I then set them to music.
Of course, there’s little difference between the two when it comes to reaching deep within for that spark, that essence of something that gives one the sense of having found something inspirational, or at least something that inspires oneself.
But one of the reasons I believe our partnership works well is because our songwriting roles are clearly defined. Ashley writes the the words and I write the tunes.
Hutchings: The writing process is inevitably different when we work together. Put simply, I write the words and send them to Ken who sets them to music, just like Rodgers and Hammerstein!
Coston: Both of you keep busy schedules. Was it hard to find time to write and record this album?
Nicol: Yes, I mentioned earlier that it slowed down the recording process quite considerably. I should add also that, for me at least, it’s not just a case of grabbing any available time you can get your hands on. With anything I become involved with, there is always a period of time within which I have to ‘think my way’ into it; I have to capture a feel for that task. This isn’t an issue so much if it’s, say, recording or mixing, but when it comes to writing, it takes me a while to get my head into that zone.
It can actually be quite difficult when you have a number of things on the go at the same time.
Hutchings: The album took some time to record, probably two years, during which we would do a bit, have a few months off, do a bit, record some more after a long break, etc.
Coston: How did Becky Mills and Abbie Lathe get involved in singing on the album? Was that planned during the writing, or did that come up during the recording?
Hutchings: I wrote some lyrics which were clearly from a woman’s perspective. I suggested Becky sang some, and Ken suggested Abbie sang another. We’d not recorded with them before so it was a fresh experience, which was good. The girls did a great job.
Nicol: Ashley… heard Becky on the radio, and then got in contact with her, and I can understand why. He suggested we have Becky guest on the album, this, I think, was actually before we had the material written that she eventually was to sing. Again, apart from the fact that she’s a great singer, we both agreed this was a good way to add light and shade to the project.
Abbie, I’d met through Maddy Prior. The two of them have known each other and have worked together on and off over a period of years. When Ashley and I wrote “Never the Same Again,” and the question arose of who we might know that had the skill and vocal dexterity to sing in a jazz vein, Abbie was a natural choice.
Coston: Do you have any favorite tracks on the album?
Hutchings: I suppose my favourite tracks are “What God Am I?,” “Raggle-taggle Lad,” “Five-barred Gate,” and “Wink Of An Eye.”
Nicol: My three favourites would have to be “The Five-barred Gate,” “What God Am I?,” and “Copper, Russet and Gold.”
“The Five Barred Gate” is a great analogy to life, that always suggested a ‘chasing’ 6/8 musical feel. I actually set the words to a tune borrowed from an instrumental I’d previously written called “In the Wake of Forward Motion.”
“What God Am I?”: a fantastic concept and lyric from Ashley about the Westminster Bridge in London; the idea of this majestic structure carrying so much on its back as it observes and serves the world with ‘God-like grace’. It still makes me cry.
“Copper, Russet and Gold”: not unlike the Westminster Bridge song, insofar as it paints an atmospheric and reflective setting in Paris. In fact, if you close your eyes, you’d think think you were right there.
Coston: Ken, Did you approach the guitar playing any differently than, for instance, the new Steeleye Span CD, Cogs, Wheels & Lovers?
Nicol: Certainly in that I had more freedom to design the shape of the music generally in C,R&G than I did with the Steeleye album. With Cogs, Wheels & Lovers, I didn’t have a great deal of creative input to tell you the truth, far less, in fact, than any of the other albums I’ve worked on with the band. There’s also a lot of acoustic guitar playing on C,R&G. Acoustic playing is what I’m best at.
Coston: Do you find that the two of you work differently together now, as opposed to, say when you first joined the Albion Band?
Hutchings: No, we work the same way now as we did in the Albion Band, I would say.
Nicol: The dynamics are a little different. The way we work together now is probably more relaxed than it used to be, and I’d say that probably the mutual respect has grown over the years.
Coston: Ken, Steeleye just finished a lengthy 40th anniversary tour, and a new album. What’s next for the band?
Nicol: I’m not 100% certain just at this moment, but my guess is that there’ll probably be a couple of tours in 2011.
Coston: While it’s been many years since Ashley was in Steeleye, did he have any advice for you when you joined the band?
Nicol: Keep your head down. And always carry an extra pair of boxers.
Coston: Ashley, you’ve been a key part of four legendary groups. Fairport, Steeleye, Albion and Morris On. What would you say has been the keys to your success?
Hutchings: I’ve absolutely no idea about the key to success. I just do what I want to do and hope for the best!
Coston: How would you describe your bass playing? Does it change, depending on the project?
Hutchings: My bass playing is pretty conventional nowadays. It was more adventurous back in the Fairport and Steeleye days. I think of myself as a writer, producer, band leader first, and bass playing comes well down the list.
Coston: When I interviewed Dave Mattacks last year, he told me that playing on the first Morris On record changed the way he thought about what he could do on drums. What have you gotten out of the Morris On series?
Hutchings: Constructing the Morris On series of albums, and there have been six, has been fun and therefore a relaxing change with all the strongly emotional songs I’ve recorded.
Coston: What’s next for the both of you?
Hutchings: What’s next? Well, mainly establishing the work that I’m doing right now rather than thinking up new projects, or forming new groups. That means doing gigs with Ken to promote our album, and working with my beloved Rainbow Chasers group. As if that isn’t enough, I now have an eighteen year-old son, Blair ,who wants to become a pro singer/guitarist, so I’m helping him out in many different ways.
Nicol: We’re planning a tour in the fall, and probably again early 2011, after that I’m not sure, but I doubt very much that the story will end there.
Steeleye Span Photo by Daniel Coston
Discussion
No comments yet.